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The leader shouldn't have scheduled something after the trip. |
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leader should have canceled trip. leader should have started the trip on time. |
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People are going to have bad days, now and then. If problems had developed earlier in the day, everyone would have been better served if Maria and an experienced group member had been able to safely return to the trailhead early. |
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While the leader was probably trying to be nice by letting the person participate, in the end it didn't set the trip up for success. The leader should think "what can I do to set this trip up for the best chance of success?" and the answer to that may involve having honest conversations with participants and also not overbooking the leader's own schedule. While students certainly have a responsibility to be contributing participants on trips, ultimately it is the leader's responsibility to set the trip up for success. |
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There is no solution. Assuming that Maria isn't lying, she honestly did not think her previously sore back would be a problem. But it was a problem. Stuff happens. Never plan for a trip to always go on schedule. The gaiters on backwards is a red herring - I put my shirt on backwards last week. It comes down to a question of honesty - did Maria honestly think she could do the trip on schedule, or was she lying to you and herself. No way to know. So the answer is to not plan dinner with you boss on trip days. |
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It's handy to blame the leader here, and certainly they should have been more diligent about screening for capability to complete a trip successfully. However, Maria's behavior to first sign up for a trip that she was not capable of, and then not respond to queries until the last minute, was irresponsible and selfish. Every group member needs to understand their role in the successful completion of a trip and not just assume that the leader will 'make it work' for them. |
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It is psychologically very difficult to cancel someone from a trip. Sometimes people have bad days. In spite of my misgivings, I would have let Maria on the trip. I think participant education is probably the best way to reduce incidents like this. |
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Should have cancelled dinner engagement,
Or cancelled trip or changed trip to a reasonable shorter day.
Should NOT have allowed Maria based on her profile. Listen to hunches |
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Before the event call the person asking if any medical issues or reasons not to be successful in the event. MUST be ready to GO at the documented time, it must start on time. If not prepared to leave on time they will not be able to go, Safety and time lines are crucial to the success/safety of the trip. Do you understand? |
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Leadership training. The leader didn't screen Maria adequately, did not adjust the trip as the situation changed, and did not recognize their actions as being at fault. |
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As a leader, you know that things are going to occur on the trip, such as people arriving late. A good leader is flexible, and handles the situation as it arises. They are making decisions regarding safety of the group. People are always on their learning curves, whether is new clothing or rehab after an injury.. For example Maria probably now knows that in the future she should take shorter hikes because of her back. She know now that she has limits. But she also had good communications to let her leader know she was having a problem, so he could adjust the pace. |
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Trips go no faster than the slowest member. Performance can be influenced by many factors. This trip did accomplish its trip objective, so it was a success. Missing a dinner is just a risk of scheduling an outside event so closely to an outdoor event on which an exact time of return cannot be predicted. |
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The leader needs to have briefed Maria more thoroughly to find out her level of experience the first time she talked to her. And told her this trip was not for her if that is determined (do NOT guess) and explain why. Be gentle but clear and encouraged her to keep looking for other skill/experience building trips that she would probably enjoy more at this point. |
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Trailhead discussion about medical conditions, or maybe a way to capture pre-existing medical conditions in the participant's profile. More formal way for trip participants to self-evaluate and be accountable; "moderate" can be very subjective. Lastly, the trip leader was cutting it pretty fine and probably shouldn't have over-scheduled himself. |
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Leaders, and participants, should learn (as I eventually did) that you cannot go on a group outdoor outing and count on being somewhere that evening. What can go wrong will take time. You'll make it most times, but you will lead better if you don't have the pressure on you to hurry out. |
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Leader and participants should not schedule other activities on the day of an activity (this expectation should be made clear to everyone). The leader needs to conduct adequate screening and be clear on expectations of the activity based on any unfavorable/questionable screening results. Expectations include participants taking responsibility to be prepared, on time, and physically capable based on their own review of the activity description. |
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This is a tough one. I've had only one such person. She shouldn't have been there, but there was no specific reason to exclude her. The leader is somewhat at fault for scheduling the dinner for that evening. He/she should know that things sometimes go wrong and should allow for this. |
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The leader never seems to have inquired as to why Maria had the 3 "cancelled" trips. I also feel that since things went well initially, it was just one of those things that happen. In this case, I would not try to get her off future events. |
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To me, having post-trip commitments is not acceptable, for either leaders or participants. You have to plan for things taking longer than they should, and having an outside deadline contributes to decisions being made that are not in the best interests of the trip participants or trip outcome overall. |
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Better info to early participant, better to manage own schedule, should have warned boss - so both are at fault. If someone has so many questions, would have picked up on them being new. |
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The leader made major efforts to assure everyone was prepared but this participant did not take responsibility for herself. The leader can ask more questions of an unknown participant and, if not confident that their pace and conditioning is up to the requirements of the trip as listed, then they may have to be more hard-nosed about turning people down. Somehow we need to teach our members how to understand their own capabilities and take responsibility to either be prepared for a trip AS LISTED or not sign up for it. There are plenty of activities out there for people who aren't capable of faster or more strenuous activities. |
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The leader needed to ask more questions during the phone call.
Hard to tell if some one has an old injury and doesn't say anything about it. |
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Leader made a judgment call in not cancelling the trip when the dinner conflict arose. Better to cancel or postpone the trip. Too many things can go wrong and it sets up additional judgment-clouding stress for leader. |
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In the "interview" it states that Maria is eager to go on the trip but does not appear that the leader vetted her. Also, you should NEVER schedule a meeting for after a trip. |
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We're here to help people explore the outdoors. Sometimes they know less than we do or have unexpected things come up that inconvenience us - dealing with all of that is part of the volunteerism involved in what we do! |
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The leader is totally responsible for this trip. He based his trip around his personnel needs and didn't factor or plan for the unexpected nor the needs of the participant's. While we all want outstanding people on our trips, our mission to the people and the land, not ourselves. |
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Leader needs to ask more questions about participants abilities, call other leaders to make inquiries.. Also should tell participant that there is a time limit on this trip. |
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Leader should never plan an activity later in the day that is of any significance. This has failed too many times. If this was Leaders Permission Only, how did she sign up? The leader's conversation with Maria over the phone as described above is focused on answering her questions of him vs his of her. The concerns he id'd reviewing her profile weren't addressed. Solution: Leader shouldn't have led the trip, she shouldn't have signed up. |
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The leader should have taken a little more effort to screen this participant due to the profile history and the red light of them signing up without the leader's permission. Participants need to be honest about their skill levels and physical abilities. Leaders are not guides, they are volunteers, participants are just that, participants, not clients. |
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As a climb leader, I'd say that having plans for the night after the climb is just plain wrong. If the plans still have to be made, then significantly reducing the group size, inviting only the people that the leader personally knows, starting super early to leave plenty of time cushion, and having firm turnaround time, is the only way to go. |
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With hard deadline (dinner), best to schedule shorter trip and see if folks still wish to come.
Best to excuse her from the trip if have no information from prior leaders. |
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(Didn't understand the question-answer process initially--sorry, my first answer doesn't count). 1) Treat it as an accident and escort her out. The rest of the team might have to come too if no one else to guide them. 2) While coming out give her with sense of self-respect and encouragement by teaching/explaining how these things work. |
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This is a common problem. Some participants do not have experience to self assess or there are other factors leading them to sign up for trips they can not do. It is difficult or time consuming for leaders to evaluate people over the phone. To the extent possible objective criteria for the activity such as hike at 3mph, climb at 1000 ft / hour, 12 miles in 6 hours, etc will help. These don't always capture the difficulties of some activities. |
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The leader should have cancelled or postponed the trip if time was that important. Trips usually run over time and we are trying to show people how to "enjoy" the outdoors. |
